Church 209 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Depends on proper bedding. And then there comes problem that it's much harder to bed well track pads during daily driving's braking, and even more so - in cold weather. And even more so if one uses BBK, from what i've heard. So many track pads users, that don't switch prior/pre trackday pads, enjoy 2-3 quiet days after tracking, with squeeling returning, once bedded layer is worn off. Some hybrid pads might be daily-driving beddable too, but in general one has to sort out one's priorities which matters more, pad performance on track OR quietness daily driving. OR swap pads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrey86 352 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 58 minutes ago, Ade said: Careful, the friction coefficients vs temperature vary between compounds. Best fit the same front and back otherwise you end up with too much up front in my experience. Its workable though. I spoke to Ian at Carbotech who recommended just doing the fronts for my usage, plus RBF600. He used to own and trackday an 86 with Carbotechs so has good experience. Obviously I'll have to see how it goes though. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Church 209 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Cases where usage of different pads can be justified if there is mismatch & brake bias shift in brakes themselves (eg. only aftermarket fronts that match badly rears, or vendor itself didn't properly made bias of their BBK, if bias shift is with his BBK both front & rear), or owner installed aero that changes grip bias a lot from that of stock grip bias or uses staggered tire/wheel setup. One shouldn't mix for other reasons, and given importance of brake subsystem in car, it's not best choice to reduce braking performance or reliability (eg. making braking path longer due one end locking way before other end is fully loaded, or not working well with electronic nannies, or car handling loosing stability with nannies off when hard braking, or overheating/wearing one end too much) for just slight savings of changing fronts only. And if different pads are used to compensate non-stock bias or even more so if brake vendor advises to do so .. i'd stay clear of it's products, as that would tell he didn't care enough to ensure right bias, just thrown something roughly fitting together from his part bin to quicker market product. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrey86 352 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Matching compounds would obviously be ideal, I doubt anyone disputes that and is an easy position to take as a high ground. However I do value real experience from an expert source, especially if it means they aren't trying to sell me something they make that they aren't sure I need... Tbh reading the above post again, seems to be quite a bit of unfounded Internet hyperbole / paranoia there - not working with traction control?! I haven't died yet and my TRC is quite active atm 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Church 209 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 "not working well", yeah, probably too hyperbolic wording. "not working well/not optimally" probably would be better. I understand paying for making something better. I wouldn't want to pay for making something work worse. Making braking/stability/wear worse is not something i'd want to pay for by own money. With stock brakes or with properly designed BBK with stock-like brake bias imho different pads front-rear is what will make brakes worse. Tires & brakes are two things i'll never compromise with on whichever car (including worst econofamilycars or cargo transport) i'll ever own and whichever way i'll use it (only DD or track or mixed). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrey86 352 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 So if you "never compromise" on brakes and tyres, what is this ultimate setup you are running? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TTR 509 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, maurice said: So if you "never compromise" on brakes and tyres, what is this ultimate setup you are running? Parachute + forward facing antimatter rockets for the braking system 2 Ztox and surrey86 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S18 RSG 429 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, TTR said: Parachute + forward facing antimatter rockets for the braking system I usually find a brick wall does a decent job, and a fraction of the price. 1 Lowe reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 378 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, S18 RSG said: I usually find a brick wall does a decent job, and a fraction of the price. Tried that (ok it was a dry stone wall). It didn't work. 2 Mike and Neal reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S18 RSG 429 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Just now, Rich said: Tried that (ok it was a dry stone wall). It didn't work. Did the car stop? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 378 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 Yes, but it wasn't the wall that stopped it. Clean through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TTR 509 Report post Posted February 9, 2017 54 minutes ago, Rich said: Yes, but it wasn't the wall that stopped it. Clean through. Seriously you should try the antimatter rockets, can set you up with a nice 20% discount so only £4,000,000,00 each. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 10, 2017 On 2/9/2017 at 9:48 AM, maurice said: I spoke to Ian at Carbotech who recommended just doing the fronts for my usage, plus RBF600. He used to own and trackday an 86 with Carbotechs so has good experience. Obviously I'll have to see how it goes though. Sorry I wasn't trying to start a great debate. Just wanted to warn you, but looks like you have it covered. Everything written on the ft86club is gospel to some and subject to copy and paste at times. I tried different compounds front and back when trying to make the decision on brakes (mine moves bias back about 10%) and found that a more forward bias than stock makes the car feel a bit more nose heavy trailing into a corner, on the flip side, obviously too much rear and they lock first, engaging ABS. Tyres, suspension, weight of driver , subwoofers in the boot ect all have an effect on the subjective feel of the car. So best to follow the advice of Ian who has tried and tested the setup rather than the internet copy and paste brigade. I got flamed for running project mu Clubracers up front and HC800+ on the back, simply because I didnt want to fork out another £180 for a set of rear pads. When I asked the person why it a bad idea (after being told by the project mu distributor it will work fine) for evidence (i.e friction vs temp charts), he didn't have any using the usual excuse "its confidential". Let us know how you get on. I want something with more bite up front on mine. 1 surrey86 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falix 22 Report post Posted February 10, 2017 Just ordered the StopTech front discs to go with my Performance friction pads, as the standard discs are showing very early signs of warp. Oops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrey86 352 Report post Posted February 10, 2017 Don't apologise Ade, it's a fair observation and worth knowing. I think you hit the nail on the head re: experience versus copy-pasting forum opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrey86 352 Report post Posted February 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, Falix said: Just ordered the StopTech front discs to go with my Performance friction pads, as the standard discs are showing very early signs of warp. Oops. Have you been on track? It's more likely your pads have overheated and smeared material unevenly on your discs if so.. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falix 22 Report post Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, maurice said: Have you been on track? It's more likely your pads have overheated and smeared material unevenly on your discs if so.. Nope! Road use only! It's done nearly 20k and these look like the original discs so I'm not fussed for £160 posted! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 10, 2017 To be fair, you should get a lot more than 20K miles out of stock discs and pads. I got 37K out of my first set. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S18 RSG 429 Report post Posted February 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Lauren said: To be fair, you should get a lot more than 20K miles out of stock discs and pads. I got 37K out of my first set. 36k on mine atm. Were an advisory on the MOT, but still a few thousand miles of life in them apparently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 25, 2017 My brakes were screwed on track yesterday at Oulton. It was really quite worrying in the dry. I think my Stoptech pads after a bit over 30K miles are getting a bit thin and not coping with heat well. I had a good chat with Jeff about his Project Mu HC800's and it would seem they could be what I'm looking for, as I want a pad I can really modulate when trail braking and he reckoned they were good for that. £264 for a set, ordered this morning and a nearly new set of discs to go on that I bought from Rob about a year ago. This should help, I hope. I will feedback once they're on and fitted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinA 695 Report post Posted February 25, 2017 Think I need fronts, not yet decided what to go for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 25, 2017 My brakes were screwed on track yesterday at Oulton. It was really quite worrying in the dry. I think my Stoptech pads after a bit over 30K miles are getting a bit thin and not coping with heat well. I had a good chat with Jeff about his Project Mu HC800's and it would seem they could be what I'm looking for, as I want a pad I can really modulate when trail braking and he reckoned they were good for that. £264 for a set, ordered this morning and a nearly new set of discs to go on that I bought from Rob about a year ago. This should help, I hope. I will feedback once they're on and fitted. Jeff got those on my recommendation. They are my favourite "road and track" pad. Just be aware they are more track than road so you'll need to bed them in often to avoid chalk board squeal. They can handle 800C temps before significant fade though and cold bite is decent but not amazing so again be aware of that. Im sure you have lot of experience with pads like this anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TTR 509 Report post Posted February 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Ade said: Jeff got those on my recommendation. They are my favourite "road and track" pad. Just be aware they are more track than road so you'll need to bed them in often to avoid chalk board squeal. They can handle 800C temps before significant fade though and cold bite is decent but not amazing so again be aware of that. Im sure you have lot of experience with pads like this anyway. Don't the HC800's eat through discs like mad though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Ade said: Jeff got those on my recommendation. They are my favourite "road and track" pad. Just be aware they are more track than road so you'll need to bed them in often to avoid chalk board squeal. They can handle 800C temps before significant fade though and cold bite is decent but not amazing so again be aware of that. Im sure you have lot of experience with pads like this anyway. Don't the HC800's eat through discs like mad though? Not really. They are still quite soft. The hc800 only last me 2 trackdays and disc wear was less than 0.25mm iirc. Its the clubracers that are hard on the discs but fantastic for the track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falix 22 Report post Posted February 28, 2017 On 10/02/2017 at 8:35 PM, Lauren said: To be fair, you should get a lot more than 20K miles out of stock discs and pads. I got 37K out of my first set. Either it's me or MK roads, every car I've had has warped a set of discs at least once, these are pretty badly lipped too so I was expecting to have to replace them this summer anyway, was a little cheeky chucking another set of pads in. I think the constant 70mph-0-70-0 of roundabouts really doesn't help, as any more than 3 high speed stops kills most standard pads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
