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Ade

Ade's Road and Track Toy

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bedford was the first time I actually got to use my pads properly since having them fitted and they never missed a beat either. I have Dixcel Z Type. I don't have bubbling paint though because I cba to paint them :D

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29 minutes ago, rob275 said:

bedford was the first time I actually got to use my pads properly since having them fitted and they never missed a beat either. I have Dixcel Z Type. I don't have bubbling paint though because I cba to paint them :D

Yeah I painted them like 3.5 years ago when I got the car and it was never intended to be a track toy. How times change! My 1st 20 minute session at Snetterton a couple years back had them blackened. 

20150528_202358_zpsbasfaasm.jpg

The Dixcel stuff looks interesting. I think the type RA would be good alternative to the clubracer on primaries as they have a lower friction coefficient. Until the primaries are warm, its a bit too easy to lock up.

Problem with the club racers and most racer type pads is that they literally sound like sandpaper and smell even under light braking. 

Part of the reason I've gone with such a big disc brake kit, rather than a 330mm disc kit, is so I can use mild street friendly pads without getting fade or excessive wear. I had a set of Project Mu HC800+ 800C temp pads and they lasted 2 track days and looked like this:

20150603_200526_zpsfdqlidxu.jpg 

 

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5 minutes ago, daidaiiro said:

Hope I'm not being cheeky or too nosy...

I note you've installed and are enjoying the Cosworth stage 2 SC - did you consider any others? What made you choose Cosworth over Sprintex, Harrop, etc?

Not at all. I preferred the power delivery of the twin screw so we'll disregard the centri chargers though I think the HKS stuff looks good. 

I was considering the Sprintex a few years back until I heard about the problem with intake temperatures with trackday driving. The problem with high intake temps is that the air gets less dense with oxygen but also you lose knock resistance. So with increasign intake temps you lose quite a lot of the power you'd have driving gently in the street. Also the Sprintex is limited to about 250WHP.

Regarding the Harrop and Edlebrock kits, I think these are pretty decent, especially for the money. I didn't go for these mainly because the heat exchanges didn't look as big as the Cosworth kit. Now more data is available we've seen the Edlebrock runs about +30-35C over ambient on the track. There is no current data on the Harrop. The Cosworth kit as you can see in my chart above runs about +12-15C so half of the Edlebrock.

In my mind what this means is that the Edlebrock is a bit limited as running more boost will make IATs a little higher still whereas the Cosworth kit has more headroom if I was to go for a built engine. 

Also both the Edlebrock and Harrop run about 0.7Bar of boost to match the WHP of the Cosworth kit on 0.5Bar of boost. This is mostly down to the fact that the bigger TVS 1320 chargers are not as optimal in terms of efficiency for a 2.0l engine as the TVS900 used in the Cosworth kit. Bigger is not always better, otherwise Eaton could make alot few variants than they currently do!

Another reason I picked the Cosworth is the tune and R&D they did.

Here's a response I got from the lead engineer on the Cosworth FA20 programme:

the larger R1320 charger will take more power to turn and our analysis showed the R900 to be the optimum for a 2 ltr engine so this may be why it needs more boost to achieve the same power as ours, that in conjunction with the higher IAT's will limit the spark that can be run

we also tested our kit for over 300 hours on the dyno which included a 50 hour endurance test on an otherwise stock engine

the test was a 1 minute cycle with 45 seconds of full throttle , accelerating the engine through the gears and then allowing 15 seconds fast idle and then repeated

that test was then run for 10 hours, the oil changed and we went again until 50 hours was completed

at the end the engine was stripped, crack tested and found all parts to be within acceptable wear limits with no signs of undue stress

so with our calibration and our kit it should be a reliable 280Bhp

 

Regarding prices for self fit:

  • Cosworth Kit  including the Low temp thermostat, Air Filter, licence and Cosworth tune (you'll need to borrow or hire a programming dongle) ~ £5200
  • Self Fit Harrop kit (SC unit and ECUTEK cable/license + base tune) £4699.74
  • Edlebrock with ECUTEK tuner cable and base tune  £4548.33

I am unsure if the last two include the ECUTEK cable as a purchase or if they are borrowed from Abbey motorsport.

Either way you can see the Cosworth is a bit more expensive, but for me the lower IATs and Cosworth Calibration was enough to pay the extra £500.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for comprehensive reply.  :)

I'm leaning towards the Harrop personally but can appreciate why you and others prefer the Cosworth. If I were a track enthusiast I'd probably go the same way, but my driving is primarily lanes and B roads so absolute power isn't a priority. I doubt I'd get to appreciate the Cosworth on my 10 miles each way 'commute', where the Harrop-Eaton will give me that bit more grunt out of the bends and up the inclines.

I'm a technical incompetent so self-fit is not an option. I have the ECUtek licence since remap a couple of years ago so that'll save a few bob. Mark at Abbey has provided a quote which I'm considering, pending a test drive in their demonstrator.

Hoping for a decent end of year bonus in April - until then it's a pipe dream anyway. :unsure:

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Harrops my favourite of the two kits and I am sure its more than capable of track abuse. In fact DanJ might have one on track at the Snetterton trackday 27th April. Hopefully he'll do some logging so we can then compare the three kits.

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Yep, it should all be fitted by then. I've started designing the mounts and shrouds for the oil cooler, think you'll like what I have in mind :-)

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Brake Bias Calculations 

So the RR racing sport performance rear brake kit comes with Wilwood BP-10 pad compound and i'd rather not have to waste a perfectly good set of pads if I can avoid it. 
 
Here's the friction profile ~ 0.4-0.45u
compound_chart-2.jpg
 
I quite fancy the Cosworth Streetmaster pads at the front as they are cheap at £120 for the CP7040 AP caliper I plan to use. These have a pretty flat 0.5u from cold to 500C. I decided to do a bias spreadsheet to see the effect varying pad mu has on brake bias.
 
Obviously this doesn't include temperatures but I do plan to update with temperature data after i've had the setup on track. 
 
brake%20bias%20setup_zpsalaxbamu.png
 
The numbers seem reasonable, but if anyone thinks I may have done something wrong, please drop me a PM and i'll get it sorted. 

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They look awesome dude, can't wait to see them in the flesh. @Omer86 - checkout Ade's post on the STS Imports thread, he gives you an idea on costs I think....though not sure on how long he waited exactly but from the post, that could vary depending on when you order them and when STS Imports are due a shipment.

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21 minutes ago, Omer86 said:

Wow those look amazing. What was the total they worked out at? Worth the wait?

Thanks. I got them over here for about £1100 in the end all in. I picked them up directly from STS imports.

These are cheap because they are a little known company, but these are semi forged flow formed which makes them light (8.4kg for a 18x9 wheel) but also strong with a load rating of 720kg which is more than many high quality, much more expensive branded wheels. 

2 minutes ago, Keethos said:

They look awesome dude, can't wait to see them in the flesh.though not sure on how long he waited exactly but from the post, that could vary depending on when you order them and when STS Imports are due a shipment.

Snetterton on the 27th April? :)

I waited ages. Order them from Trackwerks in Canada, early December and they were delivered to Florida mid December. I missed the December shipment by 2 days :blink: so I had to wait till the 15th Feb for them to be shipped and they arrived at STS in Chelmsford on friday 18th March. Typically they ship a container every 6 weeks but the xmas period extended that by a week or so. If you are lucky and order an item and it arrive right before they pack the container, then you might only be waiting 4 weeks. 

Was quoted $750 to ship them to the UK so would have cost about £1550 all in. 

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2 minutes ago, DanJ said: They look superb, great colour choice too ;-)

Thanks. Now the wait for the brake calipers....

I'm beginning to worry I'm not going to have mine in time for Snetterton, not good!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, DanJ said:

I'm beginning to worry I'm not going to have mine in time for Snetterton, not good!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Yeap I'm worried too! i think they need more staff...

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1 hour ago, Rich said:

Reckon you'll have these fitted by Snetterton? I really want to see them. :)

Yeap they should be and I am hoping the brakes will be fitted too.

They are getting wrapped in Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R

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Spent my lunch break cleaning up the old discs and mounting the refurbished disc bells.

20160324_130055_zpskmrd0qbd.jpg
 
20160324_130106_zpszkzq5q0o.jpg
 
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I didnt bother with the disc face as they will be cleaning up by the pads soon Smile
 
20160324_132854_zpslzk8qhof.jpg
 
 

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Some more bits arrived.

 
3 litres of gear oil for the transmission, a litre of top up oil and a spare half a litre of brake fluid.
 
20160324_155750_zpsreelnpwq.jpg
 
Some wheel nuts for the new alloys
20160324_155848_zpsqdanb7m4.jpg
 
Some Gtechniq C5 Wheel Amour to try to protect the rims from all the track day brake dust. 
20160324_155933_zpsyvtjjqr6.jpg
 

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