S18 RSG 429 Report post Posted February 23, 2016 I didn't want to come across as a little flippant (ok, maybe a little), but I've had 10 years experience of car forums, and on each one there's been at least 1 person with deeper pockets than the rest, who tried to make out their word as gospel just because the sum of parts on their car was greater than others'. Just annoys me, so I've been conditioned to stand up for the poor. I'm not sure this has come across, but I'm not even defending my own build here. I personally have probably spent well in excess of £1500 on different suspension setups for this car, so I feel I have a good understanding of the lower end of the market, hence my reasoning for defending Tein products (considering I have tried half of their range). Plus, there are enough serious drivers on this forum using Tein coilovers that I'm sure if there was proof that their setup was outclassed by something at the same price point, they would swap them out, but everyone seems to have settled with them, and for good reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 23, 2016 I like sponge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86-Ian 351 Report post Posted February 23, 2016 Somebody tidy this thread up please....... 1 Ztox reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 23, 2016 35 minutes ago, GT86-Ian said: Somebody tidy this thread up please....... I actually thought the debate was useful, so can't see why we'd remove posts. I have the Tein Streetflex setup which is the one they did before the A and Z were out. Mine are like the Z's but are rebuildable and I do have some custom valving increasing my rear rate. I find mine good, but yes, hit a pothole and you will know about it. Obviously when it runs out of travel you'll get a fairly big hit through the chassis. Is it worse than stock in this scenario? Well yes, it is. Although the general ride is more controlled and overall better. Sure, if you spend a fortune and I did look into it, then you will gain. Stuff like the monotube Ohlins and AST etc is appealing. My main reason with sticking with a twin tube design that necessitates a narrow diameter piston and less oil capacity was simply based on longetivity reasons. I'm not saying a monotube setup won't last, but it seems that a twin tube certainly does if that makes sense. Unless you've got £4-8K to spend on something really specialised like Reiger etc which top rally cars use, you aren't going to get the cake and eat it scenario, but you may find yourself coughing that cake up when they need a rebuild every 10K miles. So all in all it has to be some compromise and particularly so when it comes to a daily car. Add in a ton of mileage as I have done and I needed something that would improve the car overall but be reliable. I was a little worried about the EDFC with all those stepper motors, but over 50K+ miles on them, they have been totally faultless, so I'm very pleased with their reliability. 5 MangoNo5, Ade, Sighe98 and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 23, 2016 Hit the nail on the head there Lauren. Though there has been talk on the US forum about the flex Z and Flex A needing to be rebuilt (or new inserts for the Z) if you use them a lot on the higher damping settings. It's all talk though.... Would be interesting to see what the shock dyno looks like for yours compared to new after the mix of driving you've done on them. Also Ohlins recommend their Road and Track DFV to be rebuilt every 30,000km or 10 hours of racing for optimum performance! which is not exactly a long time! something about cake again..... 1 Lauren reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted February 23, 2016 And hopefully more to come... The hope is that anyone on here with experience of different suspension mods chips in... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom B 44 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 I'm quite happy ATM with how my car handles, it's my daily driver and I can't see me 'Tracking' it Just yet. My initial plan was to use Eibach lowering springs (25mm drop) and Eibach spacers to space them out (20mm front, 25mm rear) to improve stance, is this setup likely to make my car handle worse? I'm not too concerned about harshness, just don't want any less grippy-ness! Or am I better not going for springs and getting a cheaper set of coilovers? Tein Street advance, MeisterR Zeta-R's or BC Racing BR coilovers would be the sort of price range of be looking at. Any suggestions/advice? p.s hope I'm okay asking this here! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 I'd consider the tein flex Z or A's or even kwv1's if it's for almost entirely street use over the other suggestions you've made. I'd also suggest that it may be cheaper going for coilovers from the off as quite a few people (me included!) get springs then change to coilovers which is obviously a more costly way to do things. As for spacers I'm not a fan - correctly offset wheels are a better choice - but lots of people do run them. 2 Lauren and Tom B reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
long-gone 152 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 A couple of years ago I went for Eibach Anti Roll Bar Kit, Tein Master Tech springs -25mm, Camber adjust bolts, Camber bush kit all installed and geo set up by Fensport - nothing fancy, cheap and cheerful primarily to lower it a little. Initially I thought it was better, cornering was certainly flatter and everything felt more taut. It didn't take long to feel too harsh for daily driving though. Every bump and pothole sent a jolt up my spine and my GF at the time really didn't like it. Kept the rest but returned to OEM springs and it's way better. The stiffer ARBs help keep it flat and it's closer to what I want, but still far from perfect. Sounds like Nicebiscuit's requirement is similar to mine so will follow with interest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 Springs and oem dampers on the whole don't seem overly well matched and give a poorer ride. It was one of the reasons I went with the AST's as they have a similar spring rate to oem. However, the Flex A's ride better than stock according to a number of people who've been in mine and are still on stock suspension. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 Bet I've got even less money for parts than you have... . I've got kids instead... Plot thickens... Was just going to order B6s but have found I can source the B12 kit with Eibach springs as well for a similar price. Probably daft not to... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
long-gone 152 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 Is there anywhere that explains, in layman's terms for the hard of thinking like me, what we're spending our hard earned on? Looking at the Bili site, for example; it's not obvious to me what is the difference between B6 and B8 from the driver's perspective. I don't want a racecar, I want something comfy for the daily grind which soaks up potholes, but which also magically transforms me into a driving god at the weekends so I can enjoy blats across the Brecon Beacons. Please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 That question is fairly simple I think. There's actually little difference between b6 and b8 in terms of damping. But b8 just has shorter stroke to match with shorter springs. So given that shorter springs are by definition likely to need to be stiffer, a b8 set up is likely to be firmer. So as far as I can tell the pro kit b12 is b6s and relatively mildly shorter eibachs. Going to try that, as I could always put the stock springs back on with the b6s if it's too much. I've looked at coilovers, but like you I'm looking for an improved road set up, and the spring rates just look too firm for the road and typically suspension travel is reduced which seems to be the last thing the 86 needs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Foulsmell reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom B 44 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 I'd like some of that too daidaiiro for as little ££ as possible. Hah. But as we all know too well in this thread.. You can't have your cake and eat it. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 I'm going to try for just a small slice, and eat that if I can... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 you shouldn't solely focus on the spring kg as the flex a's come with 6/6 which is double the rear kg and 1.5x my front kg (approx) and yet it can give a better ride than standard imo so you have to look at the shocks as well to see what dampening they offer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shiftspark 41 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 This seems the right place to put this, I have just fitted proline springs and will have this set up properly so I am aiming for 1 1/2 - 2 deg neg camber at the front and 1 1/2 neg at the rear. Will I need camber bushes to correct the rear as I believe it will be nearer -2 and may differ side to side ? and plan to use camber bolts at the front but is there enough adjustment if I use 2 of the small standard bolts on the strut at the front ? also what toe settings would you recommend ? cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 I don't think you'll get the camber you want at the front without camber plates but you might just and it can be increased by ovaling the hole on the stock itself. To get the rear even and below 2ish you'll almost certainly need either camber bushes or arms. Arms are easier to adjust but more expensive. If you go for bushes the whiteline are adjustable on the car whereas the superpro have to come off I believe. Set up depends what you mostly use it for really. Mines been on 2.5 negative front and 2 negative rear and I've found that pretty decent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 this evening I tried setting the tein flex a's to 2 clicks from full soft and it's amazing how soft the ride has become, it's almost like the hydropneumatic suspension you'd get on the old citroens I can't honestly recommend them enough 1 Deacon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 this evening I tried setting the tein flex a's to 2 clicks from full soft and it's amazing how soft the ride has become, it's almost like the hydropneumatic suspension you'd get on the old citroens I can't honestly recommend them enough Haven't you still got fundamentally less spring travel on those than the stock suspension though? There's presumably a limit to how much rough road they can take. Must bottom out eventually I'd have thought... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 18 minutes ago, Nicebiscuit said: Haven't you still got fundamentally less spring travel on those than the stock suspension though? There's presumably a limit to how much rough road they can take. Must bottom out eventually I'd have thought... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk not gotten it to bottom out yet, though I can't say I've tried. I can tell you on Thursday how good it is over rough road as I got to go over some to get to football I have tried the suspension on a single track country lane which is faaaaaaaar from smooth, it's up n down and uneven with it on 4 clicks from hard and it rode that better than standard, felt I could go quicker much more safely than standard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Tareim said: this evening I tried setting the tein flex a's to 2 clicks from full soft and it's amazing how soft the ride has become, it's almost like the hydropneumatic suspension you'd get on the old citroens I can't honestly recommend them enough 2 clicks from fully soft - so 14 clicks from stiff? Not tried mine that soft - I usually find it's a bit too wallowy around 10 from full stiff so I usually settle at around 7-9 from full stiff. I'll have to give 14 a try now though when I'm back on my feet - got me curious Sam! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 Well that's what it's all about... Got badly put off stiff cars by an Abarth 500. No suspension travel - the thing was awesome on smooth Tarmac but would try to kill you if it hit a mid corner bump... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted March 6, 2016 The crucial difference betweem the b6 and b8 is the shortened bumpstop. The B6 is the same stock length of the stock shock and has a big bumpstop. If you use 30mm lowering springs with the b6 you'll not have much bumpstop free travel - so the effective spring rate will be progresive in nature. If you use the b8 you get more linear spring travel but a more abrupt bumpstop. Anyone wanting lowering spring need to be mindful that if you shorten bump travel you need to firm up the spring otherwise big bumps will be really uncomfortable and I'd also recommend shorter bumpstops if the spring kit doesnt include them. The first thing people need to understand is reason we have the wheel gap is because the chassis engineers had to design for some degree of comfort with a budget of $100 per shock (and a shock that has to last 100k miles) which means you'll need to use softish springs and alot more of bump travel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted March 7, 2016 13 hours ago, Deacon said: 2 clicks from fully soft - so 14 clicks from stiff? Not tried mine that soft - I usually find it's a bit too wallowy around 10 from full stiff so I usually settle at around 7-9 from full stiff. I'll have to give 14 a try now though when I'm back on my feet - got me curious Sam! yep 14 from full stiff, it is a little wallowy yet still feels more composed than standard 1 Deacon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
